February 5, 2021
(updated February 21, 2021)
Published by Dennis Velco
In this episode of OutBüro Voices featuring LGBTQ professionals, entrepreneurs, and community leaders from around the world, host Dennis Velco chats with AJ Mizes a career coach, leadership coach, and HR consultant.
A.J. is a talent and human potential aficionado with over a decade of experience within Career Coaching and Human Resources–and has been featured in NBC, CBS, FOX, The International Business Times, and Yahoo! News. Most recently, though, AJ left Facebook as a Global HR Leader where he supported an international team and launched many innovative leadership programs under his guidance–that are still in full swing at Facebook today. He’s supported global teams of over 3,000 people and currently serves as the CEO of The Human Reach–a human potential institute guiding high-achieving professionals to land their dream careers in record time and coaching silicon valley leaders to be thoughtful, effective leaders. His career stems from a foundation in training and development at KSL Capital, where he coached leaders on how to select, coach, and retain top talent at some of the world’s most prestigious luxury resort properties. A.J. also served as a leader @ Premier Staffing where he worked alongside well-known tech giants in organizing talent strategy and recruiting tactics. Before Facebook, AJ was the Vice President of Talent and Engagement at Sungevity—the world’s leading platform technology for residential solar—where he led an HR team that spanned across the United States.
Join me and AJ on OutBüro, the LGBTQ professional and entrepreneur online community network for gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, queer, allies and our employers who support LGBTQ welcoming workplace equality focused benefits, policies, and business practices. https://www.OutBuro.com
Scott Vedder is an LGBT entrepreneur focusing as a professional career coach helping to craft resumes that stand out effectively communicating the skills and past success that align with a candidate’s ideal target jobs. Job search tips for writing a great resume for all including military veterans transitioning to civilian careers, gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, and queer (LGBTQ) professionals seeking a career change and new job. Maximize your resume to improve your job search chances.
33:00 Researching employers on their LGBTQ inclusiveness – it is darn difficult
37:00 Join HTTP://WWW.OUTBURO.COM add your professional profile, rate/review your current and recent past employers so that your ratings provide feedback to employers and are available for future candidates
42:00 Ways to further research a potential employer’s LGBTQA friendliness
Scott Vedder conducted over 5,000 interviews as a recruiter at a Fortune 100 company. He quickly discovered that a good résumé is truly hard to come by and that most applicants don’t have a clue what recruiters want to see. Scott’s book “Signs of a Great Résumé” is a #1 best-selling book on Amazon.com and has been endorsed as “Recommended Reading” by the Central Florida Employment Council (CFEC) and the Central Florida Jobs Initiative. Scott is often quoted as an expert resource and is a regular contributor to a number of international blogs, magazines, syndicated newspaper columns, and web sites. Scott has also been interviewed on dozens of live television and radio news programs. While on speaking engagement’s Scott was often asked by military veterans how to best translate their military experience to a civilian job market. This led to the adapted version of his best selling book to focus on military veterans. His focus on and strong involvement with veteran groups led him to be personally invited to the White House twice under two administrations to be recognized by the Society for Human Resource Management, Women Unlimited and the Metropolitan Business Association, LGBT Chamber of Commerce for his contributions and for helping job seekers around the world.
Scott’s #1 best-selling book, Signs of a Great Résumé, will teach you how to write a résumé that speaks for itself. This lighthearted book presents an effective approach to the serious business of writing résumés. Scott’s style is humorous, easy to understand and fun to read …if he does say so himself!
Scott has developed a simple way to make your résumé speak for itself, using !@#$%, the Signs of a Great Résumé. Each sign showcases your experience and skills and highlights your greatest achievements and contributions.
! Any part of your experience that was “amazing!”
@ Defining points, places, dates, and things in your career
# Numbers that quantify and prove your past successes
$ The dollar value of your contributions
% Figures that easily show growth and results
Whether you’re a recent grad or a CEO, a garbage collector or an astrophysicist, you can use Signs of a Great Résumé to make your experience shine… and recruiters love to see some nice, shiny experience on a résumé!
This lighthearted book presents an effective approach to the serious business of writing résumés. Scott’s style is humorous, easy to understand and fun to read …if he does say so himself! In this book you’ll learn how to customize your résumé for each job using !@#$%, how to write a great cover letter and more.
Signs of a Great Resume – Veterans Edition
Veterans, transitioning service members and military families can get great new jobs in the civilian sector with Signs of a Great Résumé: Veterans Edition. Tell civilian recruiters, “I am a P.A.T.R.I.O.T.” Learn to highlight the military values and characteristics that make you a great candidate for the civilian workplace. Taking the above principle and further applying the veteran-specific skills referenced as PATRIOT to stand out and land that new civilian job.
Conversation Auto Transcrpit
The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview.
Unknown Speaker 0:01 Hello, this is Dennis Velco with OutBüro that is oh you to be you are Oh, thank you so much for tuning in to OutBüro Voices, the new series where we are chatting with in a very casual and informative and hopefully a little bit entertaining way with LGBTQ leaders, entrepreneurs and professionals in all types of professions. Today we have a special guest named Scott Vetter. But before we get to him, make sure you take a few moments and hit the subscribe button down below if you are viewing on YouTube. If you are listening to this on one of the podcast apps such as Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, I Heart Radio, Google Apps and about 10 others also know that you are able to view this directly on the out bureau podcasts or episode pages I might be changing that now that we’re doing more videos and then taking that to podcasts but know that you’re able to watch the videos on directly the out bureau comm website as well as the new YouTube channel so now if you search YouTube for LGBT entrepreneur or and or LGBT professional, guess what? OutBüro Voices pops up on the first pages so awesome. So we’re going to be bringing the helping to bring the visibility of LGBT entrepreneurs and professionals around the world to you. So again today, welcome, welcome. We have Scott a. Scott Vetter is a human resources professional with years of experience in the fortune 500 levels space He has written a book and adapted it for military veterans. And I much appreciate that being a US Army veteran myself. So welcome so much to the show, Scott. Well, thanks
Unknown Speaker 2:12 for having me here, Dennis. That’s a real privilege and a pleasure.
Unknown Speaker 2:15 Awesome. Well, I do appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to chat with us here. And as always, there is a little bit of format. I always like to start off with our guests, such as yourself, chatting a little bit about your history, a little bit of your career journey, and then we’ll move that into your your projects and so forth that’s been that you’ve been working on most recently.
Unknown Speaker 2:40 Sure, thanks. You know, I was like you said I worked in the fortune 500. I was a fortune 100 recruiter. And when I was recruiting, what I realized is, most people’s resumes are awful. And that wasn’t unique to military veterans or civilians. It was just most people didn’t know what I was looking for. How I use that information as a recruiter on a resume. So I wrote a book about it chiefly event, my own frustration there. Look at that. That’s a book. I’m on a book. That’s me.
Unknown Speaker 3:13 And I said, You know what, I think
Unknown Speaker 3:14 I can help people. And it really took off, you know, became a best seller. I went on the book tour, and wherever I’d go, I’d meet military veterans, they’d say, Hey, what about us? It’s different. And I’d say, Well, hey, what do I know I didn’t serve. But that my grandfather bill did. They were both army e6 is that’s a staff sergeant level when they got out, and nobody helped them. There were no transition programs, the Vietnam era or World War Two. And there’s a lot of great groups we have out there today. They’re helping in the transition.
Unknown Speaker 3:45 But we still haven’t quite found
Unknown Speaker 3:46 the magic recipe of how to translate and transfer all of the military experience to the civilian world. So that’s where I knew I had to help. So I became smarter about the military disability and career transition. It has become the really primary focus of my work with resumes. And I’ve become a passionate civilian advocate for veterans in the workforce. I actually was able to write a follow up version of the book just for veterans, the veterans edition of signs of a great resume. And I began networking and meeting people in the space actually earned myself a personal invitation to meet in the office of First Lady Michelle Obama at waco. Yeah, yeah, with the program they were doing at the time called Joining Forces. And then I also met with the warrior and family support group and the Office of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff at the Pentagon, to provide a fair and balanced viewpoint and how I support veterans. I was actually invited last night out two years ago to the current administration’s White House, where I delivered my resume and interview workshops at the White House military office. And for those of you who have not served that’s the people who drive the beast of the President’s car and they run Camp David Air Force One and carry around the very important suitcase. Near proximity to the president all the time. So I got to help, you know, give a little insight as to what the next chapter of their career may look like for those who are transitioning. And of course, the caveat is no government, or God. Sponsorship is implied of any story is just this is one of the many ways I found my real passion in life, which is that I help people, especially veterans find success in their career. And now I do one on one interview and resume coaching with transitioning service members from all branches and civilians to but I work with a number of really great nonprofit organizations who support the veteran transition program and help fund services that really enable them for success in the civilian workforce.
Unknown Speaker 5:44 Okay, wonderful. Well, you know, I, it, there there are, it’s not too many, but what I’m saying is there’s a lot of people who do focus to some degree on helping people with their resume. And they’re, you know, career coaches and so forth. There’s a plethora of that for, you know, the general market. So you know, one way as an entrepreneur, no matter what kind of business you happen to run, is to focus on a niche market, whatever that happens to be, and so let’s say you’re a dog groomer. So then just focusing on you know, a particular breed if you happen to have around obviously, but just to try to draw the analogy here is if you are the best German Shepherd dog groomer in the your state, and you get all of the champions, you’re going to attract a certain level of prestige and you know, folks coming to you knowing that you are the specialist and that again, is really within any kind of a business category because you know, that really is how you can differentiate yourself in any category is is new Focus. And so that’s very interesting that you, you have taken that from your career and resume advice and focusing on the underserved market of the veterans coming coming out of service and transitioning into the workforce. So yeah,
Unknown Speaker 7:18 I think, well, in part, it’s formed by my strong belief that veterans are some of the best employees we have in the civilian workforce. They’re just some of the worst job candidates, because the one thing the military does not make them really good at doing while they’re in is becoming a civilian job candidate. And while there are programs, there’s something called tap transition assistance programs that start to teach some philosophical things about the transition, they only really scratched the surface. So that’s why it’s wonderful to see that there are many veteran service organizations specializing in this and several programs that even the Department of Defense has started to fund to really enable their success where I come in is really Helping to tell the story of how what you have done in the military or in any prior career relates to what you’re going to do in the civilian workforce. And that’s what I described as using What you see behind me the signs of a great resume. They probably look like curse words in a comic strip, I promise I’m not teaching veterans to curse on a resume. What they are is specific moments that make you a particularly great candidate for a job. And this applies to any job seeker, not just veterans. But what I want to know as a recruiter is what you in particular bring to the future opportunity. So these signs of a great resume. The first one
Unknown Speaker 8:38 is the exclamation point.
Unknown Speaker 8:39 Wow, look at what I did. Nobody else could say that. At what point you gained the most relevant experience and some numbers dollars and percent they helped to quantify exactly what makes you a great fit for the job. If you ever need to remember what the signs of a great resume are, is look down at your keyboard. They’re above the above the numbers one through five, that’s where the signs of a great resume are. These are the key to standing out and differentiating yourself on any resume, civilian military or otherwise, federal resume or any kind, you can use the signs of a great resume.
Unknown Speaker 9:15 So write a resume that speaks for itself.
Unknown Speaker 9:18 Awesome, very much like that. And, you know, obviously, this did come up through your being a recruiter at a fortune 500 actually fortune 100 if not fortune 10. company. And so talk about you know, some of the, you know, you mentioned this came out of almost, well, you said a frustration there. So, you know, I to, you know, even in in looking and trying to reach out to people to come on to the show, you know, I’m going through and looking even at LinkedIn profiles and I’m say to myself, holy crap, we really think that this is going to get the attention. You know, like, There’s no use of this. For some people. They don’t use the taglines. Well, so looking in a summary of people, it’s very hard. They don’t stand out. And so that that tagline in your LinkedIn profile should, should, you know, people really need to understand that LinkedIn should not be used as a literal translation of your resume. If you’re using LinkedIn like that, folks, you’re using it wrong. Because it’s really a marketing tool. Right? It’s so that first tagline should be your, you know, three to 10 word. Bam. This is what’s important. This is why I stand out. This is why you should click right here on me. Like your exclamation point. Right, it should be that that tag should be the wow factor. And there’s so many people that I’m going through and I’m like, okay, I kind of get, and I’m, you know, trying to show, obviously diversity and inclusion with my desk. And you know, but it’s like, oh my gosh, I’m digging and digging and digging. So I could imagine, as a recruiter, going through even just thinking on LinkedIn, there’s only what how does this person stand out? Right? How does this How does this person translate or communicate what they’re doing? So and then I will be honest, I’m going through all right, if you’ve got my little bit of attention, based on that little bit of info in that little block right there. Now I click through, and it’s amazing how many people do not have a summary.
Unknown Speaker 11:54 Right and and the same holds true on a resume. So you know, I’ll agree that that the point is to capture Someone’s I quickly and that’s definitely a parallel between LinkedIn and the resume. The way you catch someone’s eye quickly on LinkedIn is with that header. And it should be compelling. And a lot of people don’t tell you anything interesting or new up there. It’s just like, project manager. Okay. Well, you and everybody else. Exactly. Let me tell you a quick secret about the civilian workforce, and maybe jobs in general, when it comes to job titles, we just make things up. And when we don’t know what to call it, we call it project manager. Everyone in their brother, including me twice, has held the title of Project Manager, and I absolutely am not like a PMP or anything like that, where that is my professional craft. But nonetheless, the more descriptive, you can be in that LinkedIn headline to really catch someone’s eye and say, hey, there’s something unique here. To keep them reading is the same principle on your resume. So on a resume, one of the very first things that I encourage you to do is write like a summary of qualifications. I call it that in Not an executive summary or professional profile? Because I want it to summarize what you can do for me. What are you qualified to do? I look at it like the movie trailer of your resume. So if you were writing a film preview, right, like in a world where this is my experience, you know what, what you would say, to entice me to see the film is what you would put in a summary of qualifications on a resume. And that block of text on the resume is something you can tailor like you’ll tailor the rest of your resume to each job opportunity, your LinkedIn profile, you only get one LinkedIn profile. So it should be the overall trailer about what is it that you bring in a nutshell to any opportunity that you’re pursuing.
Unknown Speaker 13:41 But yeah, I agree with you that there’s a lot of parallels. And
Unknown Speaker 13:44 really the distinction between LinkedIn and resumes is the way that you use LinkedIn to contribute to the conversation to things going on in the industry, whatever industry you’re in, and also to make connections because really The best way to apply for a job is not to ideally you want to be networking far in advance of your needing a job. So you’re starting to build relationships, relationships first, then results and jobs follow.
Unknown Speaker 14:16 Absolutely, I could not agree more. And you know, you bring up a point of the, the pound symbol, the dollar symbol and the percent, you know, one of the most viewed articles on out bureau.com is should I be out on my resume and we’ll talk about that one moment. Because I definitely want to get to that with you. One of the others, I have a few, a few articles on it. And by the way, if you’re listening, you are all of you may post articles on the website just like you post articles funneling in, as well as out Bureau has a professional profile. as well, so that diversity and inclusion directors and recruiters can find you and be very targeted in their diversity and inclusion. Searching. In addition, you’re able to indicate your military status veterans veteran, which branch in Singapore, but but some of the things that I really kind of occasionally I get people that that think I’m a recruiter or think that I’m a career coach or something, and they’ll reach out to me and say, oh, could you review my resume? Or could you review my LinkedIn profile? Oh, yes. Like I have nothing else to do. You know? What number one you’re not paying me to do this because I don’t even know what to charge for that. But you know, every now and then if I you know, have a 15 minute kind of time slot out sometimes do that. And then I look through and I go, okay, where’s again, where’s that wow factor. There were the numbers where where, you know, you say you project manager, well, what did you achieve? What did you say? What did you improve and quantify that?
Unknown Speaker 16:10 Right? Absolutely.
Unknown Speaker 16:12 recruiters and companies want to see, you know, people would say, Oh, I manage this I manage projects efficiently. Yeah, well, what the heck does that mean? Right? I manage projects efficiently. What what what quantify efficient for me? One, what was the size of the project? Was it a $5,000? project, a $50,000. Project, a $500,000 project? How many people were on the team? What were you trying to accomplish? I mean, just just give some some pure exam, give some real examples, and give some quantifiable numbers. Met project deliverables in 20% under time with only utilizing AI Were 80% of the budget. So something that gives the recruiters that knowledge that Oh, yes, they are an efficient project manager, you know the word
Unknown Speaker 17:09 read my book, Dennis, that’s really well done.
Unknown Speaker 17:13 Thank you. Now I’ve got articles myself as well. And that’s why, whenever I saw what you’re doing, I’m like, Oh my gosh, this is this is so pertinent. And it’s things that I’ve talked about in the past. And again, I occasionally get asked and building my, my own network of people. Now when I have someone, especially with military experience, I can say, hey, you should talk to this fella right here.
Unknown Speaker 17:37 I think you make an important point. And, you know, but but the fact that we agree on these points of quantifying your experience is critical. And while you can ask 100 recruiters our opinions about resumes, you will get 150 opinions or more about resumes. What you will never hear recruiters say is the candidate made it too easy. To see why he’s a great fit for this job. That’s not gonna happen. And when you use the signs of a great resume, you’re making the recruiters job easier, effectively as a recruiter. My function is to become your sales agent. I need to pitch you to the boss and say, Hey, you know that person you need me to hire for you? I think Dennis has what you’re looking for. Look at how we quantified this experience and gave specific results. The biggest mistake you can make on a resume is you write a resume that reads like a job description. So think about l
Unknown Speaker 18:34 ke a soldier who j
Unknown Speaker 18:35 st Yeah, right. If a teacher writes, taught English classes, graded papers, tract grades, prepares students for the next level. Well, great, that’s what teachers do. But that’s the job description of every English teacher. And so if I’m hiring teachers, and every one of them just says that, how do I know who to hire I don’t. And that is the reality that recruiters face is there’s tons of resumes in our system. On our desk, it all look and sound pretty much the same. Because people make that same mistake, a resume that reads like a job description is the deadliest mistake you can make on a resume. And it’s especially difficult if that job descriptions about a military job, because some 97% of Americans have never served. So we just don’t understand as directly what that job description means and how it helps us. The very simple way to assess your current resume to see Am I making that mistake is you take your resume and your cover your name at the top, then you reread what you have written. If it could be anybody else’s resume. It’s not good enough, because I don’t want to know what a project manager does, or what an infantry soldier does, or what a Navy Captain does. What I want to know is what did you do and how does that relate to what I need you to do in this j
Unknown Speaker 19:55 b? Absolutely. And so what are you know, gearing your your your time doing th
Unknown Speaker 20:03 s. Or there may be a few examples that you could give with clients that you’ve had in the past that, you know, either some tips or just examples of how you like how you took military lingo and translated that into job candidate language. Su
Unknown Speaker 20:23 e, yeah. I get this question all the time from veterans, and frankly, from civilians in very technical careers who are changing the kind of work they’re going to do. So this advice applies in both instances. But when it comes to explaining a prior career that does not directly align, especially when that’s a military career that’s changing your job function. What I want you to do and you can do this with me live if you’re watching at home or listening, just close your eyes for a moment. And I want you to picture somewhere in your life, an 11 year old ch
Unknown Speaker 20:55 ld whose parents are not in the military. Can you picture that
Unknown Speaker 21:00 id That kid knows about as much about the army as most civilian adults. You cannot trust civilians to know what the heck you’re talking about unless a fifth grader would understand you. So you got to pass what I call the smart fifth grader test with every word you write on your resume. And there are just three simple questions on the smarter fifth grader test. The first one is, are you using simple language, language so clear and 11 year old would get it? And the simple answer to that in most military resumes I get it is no, because there’s a certain language to the military. And that of course includes lots of capitalization and jargon and acronyms that just do not mean things to civilians. As a general rule, if you’re hitting the caps lock, you’re losing the civilians understanding of what it is you’re talking about. You know, some exceptions apply. You know, if you’re using a term, the average news watching American would know FBI, USA those are fine Don’t bother trying to explain to most civilians, that seal is actually an acronym for Sierra Atlantic, just stick with seal. But otherwise, avoid the acronyms and even words that you might use every day in a military career that mean different stuff to us. So for instance, if you say deploy, and you mean get sent somewhere, I might think you mean how parachutes work they deploy. If you say joint, and you mean, interagency, I might think you mean arthritis or marijuana. Just keep it very simple. And the good news is, if an 11 year old would understand it, so would another veteran, they’ll just know Oh, are you actually talking about a drink team? Are you remember, they’ll know all of that, but write it to the lowest common denominator of understanding is about the 11 year old level? That’s the first question. The second question for the smart fifth grader is are you focused on good news only? Now, I recognize the business of fighting war is not always good news. I get it. But I don’t need to hear about knocking down doors and find the bad guys or anything like it. What I want to know is how to make the world a better place. And this goes back to what Dennis was saying a minute ago, where you mentioned how like the specific accomplishments that a project manager might have had, how you make the world a better place is a better way to approach the types of examples with the signs of a great resume that makes you a great fit. I want to know what you did specifically, that’s good news for your past employer, in this case, the military and for your future employer, how it relates. And the third and final question for the smart fifth grader is are you getting to the point quick
Unknown Speaker 23:39 y, because both an 11 year old and a recruiter hav
Unknown Speaker 23:42 a super short attention sp
Unknown Speaker 23:45 n? I’m told there’s a military term that actually works nicely he
Unknown Speaker 23:48 e, bluff bottom line up fro
Unknown Speaker 23:51 t, and it’s the way military leaders say you know, when you make your PowerPoint or something, make sure you make the point right away. So if general so and so loses focus or has to go Very gotten your point across. Well, the way I think about bluff as a civilian is, can you tell me a fairy tale backwards for every bullet that you write? they all lived happily ever after good news, because once upon a time, you some details if you made
Unknown Speaker 24:17 t. Yeah, God. And you know, that’s really good advice for everyone out there looking at their resume and LinkedIn profile because again, you know, yes, there’s aspects of your career and bullet points on your professional profile on LinkedIn and out there that you want to include. But that below that, that bluff analogy is, is really good. And that’s keeping it short, simple to the point and think of it as a as a marketing statement, every statement on your resume. You need to think of it with that marketing I how is going to Wow, the person viewing this How is it Going to make us stand o
Unknown Speaker 25:02 t. A lot of veterans say to me, Scott, I don’t like talking about myself. And you know, I think maybe that comes from service in the military is a selfless service, you know, you’re serving that greater mission. you’re called to serve for whatever reason that is, and to them, I say, and to everyone, I don’t want you to talk about yourself. The first filter I need you to put on your resume is that well, yes, your name is at the top. This resume is not about you. It’s about what you can do for me. Everything you write has to be filtered with that in mind first, and it means that there may be things in your career that were significant. You’re proud of them, they made a real difference in the world. Well, great, I’m glad you did them. But if they don’t relate to what you can do for me, you might not need to tell me about them. And that becomes a powerful first filter to use and the very simple way you use that filter on a resume, to read a statement or a line or a bullet. You’ve got to ask yourself so what What is this new company going to do with this information? And if you can’t answer the So what? And you know, you pretty darn well, you’ve lived with you your whole life. How am I supposed to answer the so what if I’m the new compa
Unknown Speaker 26:13 y? Gotcha, gotcha. So making sure that that everything on your resume is tailored towards that position, and especially the position and the company, the employer, because it may not be a company, right? Yes, it may be government, it may be a nonprofit and so forth are used that I’ll try to stick with employer. So you need to think about what that what your skill set and the wow factor that you can bring and how, how that translates for that employer and that particular role that you’re going aft
Unknown Speaker 26:51 r? Yeah, that goes back to the idea of tailoring your resume and tailoring your resume. You need to know if it’s about what you can do for Me You need to know what’s important to me. And the simple way to know that is I tell you, there are job postings. So you just when you’re applying to a job, you’ve seen a job online on LinkedIn or indeed Career Builder, any of those sites or USA jobs.gov. If you’re applying to work in federal government still, and the employer is giving you a literal wish list, this is what we need. And there are three parts to a job posting, usually there’s a description. So you know, do I want to do this all the time, and some minimum and preferred qualifications or basic and desired qualifications? Well, the description is a good place for you to assess what’s important, they may give you clues like about their culture, about their diversity and inclusion practices, and about their priorities for their business in the year ahead. And the minimum and preferred qualifications are the filters for what kinds of information you need to market to them, if you will, about your prior experience. I look at the qualifications list, like buying a car. The minimum qualified candidates are like Toyota’s, they’re fine. They’re just not special. Seemed like anybody could get a Toyota and it’s fine. It’s a good car very reliable. I think the number one selling car in America is a Toyota. But the preferred qualified candidates, the ones who are darn near perfect are like a Rolls Royce. Whoo fact that the perfect candidate, that’d be great. Well, you don’t have to be a Rolls Royce to get an interview or to land the job. You just got to come in somewhere around Lexus to be a compelling candidate. The more your Lexus sounds like my Rolls Royce wishlist, the better shape you’re
Unknown Speaker 28:35 n. Okay, gotcha. Gotcha. So, let’s talk a little bit about some of the other aspects of applying for a job I brought up the you know, should you be out on your resume? That is the second most viewed article on my website, outside of venture funding for entrepreneurs. And so there’s obviously lot and I, I’m pretty clear in my article about my position and I talked with several other people but being in, you know, in your role in your professional role at the company plus, writing your book, have you ever come across clients of yours or candidates are so for then, you know that had a really out resume or or not kind of found out, in fact, just kind of give us a little bit of perspective since the majority of our audience, you know, is focused on the LGB
Unknown Speaker 29:39 Q. Sure. So your resume should always be about what you can do for me and why you are qualified to do the job that you’re applying for. If a component of that is identifying as a part of or a contributor to the success of the LGBTQ community, then yes, it is relevant concept to cover in your resume. However, As we got to both sides of my mouth, you can give examples about how you have supported the LGBTQ community. And not all of those need to be about work. Your resume is not things that got a paycheck for, it’s things that make my experience valid. So if, for instance, you were going to work at an employer in their diversity and inclusion department, and you do an extensive amount of volunteering at the LGBTQ center in your community, maybe doing testing or counseling or some kind of, you know, groups that you h
Unknown Speaker 30:30 lp put togeth
Unknown Speaker 30:31 r, that is perhaps a relevant example, for a diversity and inclusion job because you’re saying, Look, I’ve reached out to this community. Now, how overtly you state Oh, and I’m a member of that community. Well, that then comes down to how much information is appropriate to disclose on a resume. And a few weeks ago, my my message may have been somewhat different. But very recently, as many are unsure attune to the Supreme Court has ruled that discrimination on the basis of sex Something covered under Title seven, the Civil Rights Act. Now, okay, we got all this by saying I’m not a lawyer, if you have questions about the law, go see a lawyer. However, for informational purposes only. Title seven is very broadly, we’ll just call the idea that you cannot discriminate employment practices on the basis of certain protected classes. And those include things like race, religion, sex, and that word sex has now been interpreted by the Supreme Court ruling to include sexual orientation and gender identity. The reason I’m mentioning this is because as a general rule, recruiters do not want to know about your status in a protected class, if it is not relevant, or at all, because we don’t want you to think we’re considering something prohibited in our analysis of your employment. So just like you wouldn’t say my religion is x. You would not say overtly, my sexual orientation is x because some recruiters will go, Well, no, no, no, no, I don’t want to hear that. Because they don’t want you to think that’s part of my analysis, Are there times where it’s appropriate to disclose that? Sure. Especially for instance, if you’re being asked about after the hire and the job offer is made, you’re being asked about a uniform to wear. And part of your transition to the different gender includes changing how you will present at work. That is an appropriate time to discuss your gender identity, and how you will present in that job. But it’s way after the resume way after the interview. It’s at the time of a job offer, when that is now a topic that’s important to cover. Because you should be your own authentic self at work, you should be comfortable. I’ll predicate all of that by saying, do your research well in advance to make sure you’re only applying at organizations where not only will they obey the law of which it is now the law of the land not to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity, but where they embrace the LGBTQ community and actively demonstrate a participation in it and support of it. There’s one thing to say, yeah, we’re an equal opportunity employer on the website. It’s another thing to talk to people in that organization, and to do some research about what that organization is actually doing, which is part of what I like about what you’re doing. And our Bureau is to provide more details and supporting evidence, if you will, of a company’s LGBTQ inclusion practices and actual footpri
Unknown Speaker 33:26 t. Absolutely. So I really like how
Unknown Speaker 33:31 ou conveyed that there. You know, and, and, you know, just because an employer also, you know, is on the HRC, corporate Equality Index, they’re still discrimination. They’re still discrimination lawsuits and litigation cases or arbitration cases that go on. So, you know, unfortunately, we really can’t just take that as an example which only covers the fortune 1000. So if you’re going for a government job or working at a mid sized company or working at a university, that’s even, even though they’ve been doing that for over 16 years, they’ve never branched beyond at the fortune 1000. So that’s where to end. You know, the out firoz group was just featured on LinkedIn, a nice shout out for the LGBT community. Thank you LinkedIn for that. much appreciate it. But then even in the group, you know, has limitations on LinkedIn, it’s you can’t search unless you pay LinkedIn for a recruiter level or Sales Navigator level membership. You can even within the group search other members who say work at a particular employer. So you know, oh, I want to work at x company, or ex employer. And so I’m a member of the group and I want to go search for other members of the out euro group to go talk with those employers. LinkedIn does not have that feature. So it becomes very difficult. And I’ll say for hours and day in first starting the out bureau comm site that’s o UT, you are calm. Even searching companies that I knew were were very, very inclusive and so forth and had didn’t have a, you know, any legal issues going on to my knowledge, at least the year prior, even googling them trying to search for LGBT related content was difficult, because the vast majority of employers even though they might have a very active employee resource group for the LGBT employees, even though they might participate in pride in a New York, Atlanta, Orlando, Miami Li etc even though they might, you know, sponsor LGBT owned businesses, even though they might sponsor LGBT nonprofits it’s very difficult to find that information so I hear you and that it’s it’s like whoa do your research and try to understand that they’re a really you know, inclusive and embrace it employer but it is darn difficult to do th
Unknown Speaker 36:29 t. Yeah, I th
Unknown Speaker 36:31 nk so that is that is where that that was the impetus for out bureau comm is seeing those gaps and those difficulties. So number one, this is my little call to action for everyone out there is to join out bureau.com so that you can search for other members very easily. Out bureau does not have the limitations that LinkedIn has forced on you because they’re they’re trying to force you to pay the hundred dollars a month or more for the recruiter or the Sales Navigator. role, even though you’re just an employee, you’re just looking for other people in an organization. Okay? So the more of you that join out bureau.com Place your professional profile, you will be there for others who are seeking you. Additionally, you’re able to provide a rating review, anonymously, on your current and recent past employers. So I think that’s very important because even providing that, you know, my employer is fantastic. There’s one review and I’ll give a shout out as to it Intel. There’s one review on the website right now by a transgender person. She clearly indicates that in the review, and just gloats how what a wonderful employer that is. And then there’s others that don’t sign that that great. Now, over time that you know, let’s be, you know, honest, every organization is made up employees. So even a very larger organization of, say, 100,000 employees, as I like to think of the, the doubt, yes, we have the laws, and I’ll get to that in a moment. But you know, policies and so forth are really the intent of the company, the intent of the employer, because they don’t control every employee 24 724 seven of the day in the week in the year, right. And if we even just take sexual harassment, which I’ve used this example many times, but even raised, you know, just by taking sexual harassment, it’s been illegal, just like now it’s illegal to discriminate against LGBT people based on sexual orientation and gender identity. If we just take sexual harassment As Case in point well, that’s been illegal for for 40 years, but sexual harassment still happens. And in employers of say 50 employees or larger, every before you can come to work, you have to sign off that, you know, it’s it’s bad to do sexual harassment, you have annual training on sexual harassment to ensure it’s See ya. And but it still happens. And so, yes, this is fantastic that the Supreme Court has made this, you know, illegal to discriminate based on sexual orientation and gender identity. But don’t think for a second that it just automatically makes every employer a, you know, rainbow flag waving unicorn loving place, right. But yeah, it’s you know, yeah. And you even look at employers like, again, this is public knowledge. It’s, it’s out there, so I’m not trying to beat them up, but it’s just reality. Look at Goldman Sachs. So Goldman Sachs has been on The HRC corporate Equality Index is ranked 100% for numerous years, and for several years in a row in a row, including 2020 20 was named one of the top employers in the financial sector based on HRC corporate Equality Index, however, they just finished a What is it called going through a lawsuit and settled for a discrimination suit. And so again, I’m not trying to beat them up here, but it’s just reality in that, you know, you can’t just look at the that any Equality Index around the globe, they’re all modeled after HRC. So you just can’t look at that and say, Oh, I’m, I’m, you know, because they’re on that list, they’re automatically going to be a fantastic 100% amazing place to work and I can just walk in with just, you know, yeah, you want the space to
Matthew French (He/Him/His) is the Founder and ‘90s-nostalgic brain behind Awesomely Authentic, a career-coaching, and inclusion organization that focuses on the unique experiences of LGBTQ+ people as they navigate the milestones of choosing a college to attend, searching for that perfect job, or making your company more inclusive.
With ten years of experience working with the LGBTQ+ community, eight years of professional career coaching, and a love of the ‘90s, he has blended all of these aspects together to create an authentically high-energy tailored experience to each client in order to help them reach their professional and career goals.
Why the ‘90s, you ask? This was an era of aberrance, vibrant colors, and animated cartoons that have influenced the way Awesomely Authentic operates. The search for a college, internship, job, or even tackling your D&I Initiatives can be daunting, but we believe that ‘90s-era fun can be achieved along the way!
To connect with Matthew find him on OutBüro here. https://outburo.com/profile/matthew_french/
Join me and Matthew on OutBüro, the LGBTQ professional and entrepreneur online community network for gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, queer, allies and our employers who support LGBTQ welcoming workplace equality focused benefits, policies, and business practices. https://www.OutBuro.com
Would you like to be featured like this? Contact the host Dennis Velco. https://outburo.com/profile/dennisvelco/
The below was created through voice to text recognition. We will strive to edit for accuracy as time permits. It may not be perfect. It is being provided for the hearing impaired to still enjoy the interview. Currently full interview not present.
Unknown Speaker 0:11 Hi there this is Dennis belko without bureau that’s o UT a bu r o.com. Thank you so much for tuning in to this week’s episode. We are trying the videos. Once again we did do a video with Celia Daniels and then just did audios. We’re going to be trying to do more videos as we move forward and extracting that audio for the podcast. on any of the episodes shows. If you’re wondering where to find this on any of the episode shows or the out bureau comm name pad podcast page, simply check out just just right under the main headings. You will see three bars that are in gray and one will say where to listen and follow this podcast. We are on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, Google podcast, and many others. Please follow us on your favorite application today. And at any time you can come to the out your episode page to view the full video interviews like we’re doing today with the fantastic fantastic and fun today. Matthew French. Matthew, welcome to the show.
Unknown Speaker 1:27 Thank you so much for having me, Dennis. I’m super stoked to be here. I really appreciate I’ve given to have some time to chat.
Unknown Speaker 1:34 Awesome, awesome and look at that funding background that we have for Matthew and that is because his a company that is called awesomely authentic and where he is a career coach to students as well as professionals throughout their entire career from entry level such as students entering into the career marketplace. mid career and even senior career professionals. He helps you focus on your career and communicating what you have achieved and the value proposition that you have for prospective employers. So very pertinent to not only our out bureau on LinkedIn group where we have over currently 46, nearly 46 and a half thousand global members, but our site is out bureau.com focusing on the LGBT professional and entrepreneurs. So as an entrepreneur who is also focusing on the career space, thank you so much for joining us, Matthew, again, and if you could please let’s start out by giving a little bit of kind of your career background and bringing you up to today which will pivot but give us a little bit of background as to your education, your background, and How that has begun to lead you into the direction that you are now taking as a as I believe you’re more of a startup, and but you have a long history, which has given you the foundation for this new startup. So give us some info.
Unknown Speaker 3:18 Sure. Yeah. So, I mean, I feel like with a lot of people and Career Services, so that’s where a lot of my background comes from. I went to Old Dominion University in Norfolk, Virginia, from a small town in Virginia, called Pocahontas, Virginia, so you should totally check it out. It’s very small. If you want to ride four wheelers or something in the woods, that’s a great place to go. Then I went to Old Dominion, did an undergraduate in communications, got really involved in the queer community during that time working in student orgs being a part of Hampton Roads LGBT Center, and then I was a column undergrad, so I was not sure what to do with that degree. I had dabbled in the world of entertainment through being a casting director. And that just, it just didn’t fill up my cup, you know. And so I decided to go to grad school. And I went to grad school at Old Dominion University where I focused on lifespan and digital communication, and specifically LGBT identities around fan communities. So around superheroes, and then I also focused on LGBT identities, and how they focused around technologies like using technology to stay connected and specifically looking at apps like Grindr. But during grad school, I got connected to my career center. I was like, cool, I get to plan events. I get to help students, I get to reach out to employers, this will be fun. And so I did that and that really led me on my whole career path of helping others demonstrate communicate their value to employers and how to best kind of demonstrate that not only to employees, what’s been said I feel like a lot of the people I work with really undervalue their skill sets. It’s Yeah, it’s an interesting world when you’re talking to people about their skills and their experiences and how they can utilize those. So working with students at Marymount Manhattan college was my first job out of grad school up in New York City in the Upper East Side, small liberal arts school about 2000 students mostly Performing Arts, some business and then I switched over to UNC Charlotte about five years ago, where I did career advising mostly for again liberal arts and science arts Media Design, and focusing in on an industry of arts media and design. So helping communicate everything from engineering, to communications to business if you want to work with Disney, you fall under my under my roof. So I would talk with those students about how to best frame their experiences for that particular industry and continually through all of them staying engaged with the LGBTQ community through different ways. And once COVID hit, you know, I just had a lot of outreach from people a lot of help was needed. And through leadership that I have and mentors that I’ve had, they really encouraged me to, you know, start my own consulting to help queer people find the spaces where they could flourish. Because I’m a big believer, I’m weird. And I think everyone has that right to be as weird or not weird as they want to be in their job to be as authentic as they can. So I love to keep it fun and funky and fresh and just kind of pulling from the 90s vibe of like bright colors to really set that tone or getting that professional experience started. Gotcha.
Unknown Speaker 6:46 And so you know, sometimes it’s it’s really hard for people to break through the noise. You know, when you’re looking at resume after resume or you know, once you’ve passed that article Official intelligence span and you’re getting to that human. Yeah, um, you know, having having your resume look really polished. Uh, but having that that spin having that that color palette that layout, that main headline and so forth. That speaks to the professional side, but also just has that poppin wow factor. Yeah, that that grabs that attention. I think that’s really important. And from what I seen, it seems like that’s something that you focus on, on bringing out the personalities of the people as well.
Unknown Speaker 7:35 Totally. Yeah. So this is like a fun little tidbit that I always encourage people to do is one way when you’re figuring out your brand and how you’re going to look to employers. A lot of times people are just like, I don’t know where to start with that. So the best way to start is start with yourself and thinking about what are maybe three brands that you love, that you use a lot you like what they’re doing, and the World, anything like that. And then once you have those three brands, go through their Instagram, go through their website, look at their logos, see what colors they have and which ones speak to you. And you’ll usually see common themes around colors, texts, shapes, that you can then kind of take and metamorphosize into your own personal brand that you can then use on your resume that bleeds over into your LinkedIn. If you have your own website, it can bleed over to there, it can bleed over out Bureau, it’s really about creating a consistent narrative about who you are, and letting that be the authentic self so that way employers are like, you come to life for me, you’re more than just a resume I understand you are based off of just looking at the tones and textures across all these platforms.
Unknown Speaker 8:45 Now, you know, I completely agree and that, you know, you you know, as a professional, you really do need to set your your own brand out there. And interestingly forget his name off the top of my head. But there is a person in my LinkedIn connections and he’s also in the group and I wish I could pull his name up right now, but he’s a realtor in the US and Canada, I forget which it’s not one of the main cities are popping into my head. But what was really interesting is as a realtor, he has he he has these small video monologues. And he talks about connecting with his, you know, audience and one video that he did literally just a week ago, already has, like over 250 likes over 100 comments. And, and well, I even commented to him I’m, you know, I rarely reach out and go beyond the purely professional realm but because we’re connected and we’ve had a little bit of dialogue in the past He was questioning whether he should or someone else was questioned whether he should still be doing it and what purpose of it is it and so forth and he’s like, this is my brand. This is what I’m doing. And I actually messaged him I said, Oh, keep it up handsome.
Unknown Speaker 10:15 They’re also love your background, they just got a Danish modern
Unknown Speaker 10:22 bookcase behind and so forth. But, you know, even when looking for a job, what I recommend for for people to do is you know, whether that’s on LinkedIn and hopefully you’re also creating your brand on out bureau.com o ut buro.com. Is I constantly invite people to no matter what field they’re in, to begin writing and publishing articles even if that’s just one or two or three articles about their knowledge their take on the industry, their take on the technology whatever that happens to be, so that in addition to a professional profile, which is indexed and searched, and so forth, and people can find you, and when employers do then find you on that side, they know you identify and are an ally with the LGBT community, which you know, is diversity and inclusion recruiting. But then, as they see those articles that are also being posted, they see, oh, not only did they go to this school and have this degree and have this bit of, you know, professional education, look, there are so look at these articles that they’ve written in and around that topic. This is the kind of person that we want to hire someone who seems very comfortable in their knowledge and their ability to communicate that knowledge because you know, today, in today’s time, it’s very important to not only have the technical skills, but Have those soft skills as well. And being able to communicate, you know, your knowledge and taking complex ideas and theories and so forth and bringing them down into a, whether that’s a video conversation. And of course, you can also post videos on the site, but adore articles that demonstrates that you thoroughly understand your topic. And it’s going to make those employers go, Wow, that’s a really interesting person. I liked the content that they produced these few articles that really has helped set them apart in my mind.
Unknown Speaker 12:38 When value added its value added, right? It’s if you’re able to speak and demonstrate that you’re up on the industry standards. And you’re also able to, again, like you said, communicate those things. Employers are always looking for more tidbits again, to give them a more full picture of your narrative and who you are as a brand. So if you’re able to write those things, out, you know, I have to admit, I am not the best writer, but you put me on a video and I am there for it. So I already like on my website, I know writing isn’t my strong suit. It’s not something I really enjoy. But I really love doing vlogs. So I used transition line from a blog to a vlog because it’s working to my skills and my strengths, but it’s also a part of the brand, you know, right excitement, you know, and it’s trying to get that out there. And that’s what people have to think about. When you’re thinking about your brand. You’re thinking about how employers are going to perceive you. It’s always important to think about what is this demonstrating as a skill set, right? What is it demonstrating that you’re good at public speaking is demonstrating that you’re detail oriented, because the one thing especially disoriented, I cannot tell you how many people I’ve put, I’m detail oriented, and then they have a misspelling in the resume. So it’s like actually demonstrating those skill sets at work. It also gives you work samples, things you can add your portfolio. It’s it. Again, it’s all about giving the employer more information. On the upfront, because that will also help if employers are searching for you. Right? If you’re on LinkedIn and out Bureau and you have your own website, the likelihood of them digging in then and going for let’s say, your Instagram or your Facebook, maybe places you don’t want them to see as much of that’s less likely because they’ve already gotten enough to understand you as a professional from the things that you’ve already put out there that you are controlling.
Unknown Speaker 14:23 Well, speaking of those other apps, I will say on out bureau comm I’ve written twice, one article on security and privacy for the LGBT professional and it’s all about, you know, locking your locking your stuff down. And one of the things in a couple of articles that I’ve written is, you know, you know, just be very, very cautious and think really hard about the kinds of things that you post on any platform because once posted you may it’s never gone and you may think that Oh, I’ve deleted it from Facebook so therefore it doesn’t exist ball shit. It’s still out there it’s still on those servers because just because you delete something does not mean it’s truly deleted. And you know when you think about even those those apps like you mentioned Grindr, okay. One there’s also I’ve written about and people can Google This is that you know, the US government has warned about that and tick tock that they could be security issues because they share so much information with marketers and so forth. And and going to a point to is, you know, just, you know, when you think you’re in that one on one conversation with that hot stud, and you’re sending those picks up, know that that can be screen captured. Hello very easily. And used tomorrow against you or us at any point in the future against you. So just be very, very cautious of everyone be very, very cautious about, you know, what you send on any platform. And of course, yeah, and of course on out Bureau, it’s only professionally oriented content, no hot torsos shots, love them from my boys on Facebook. But you know, it’s it’s not appropriate for the workspace.
Unknown Speaker 16:32 So but it’s actually a good point. I would like to touch on that a little bit because it is a different aspect than what
Unknown Speaker 16:38 professional career counselors sometimes have to deal with. When you’re coming from the queer community. We’ve created our own spaces where we’re safe, right? So whether that be a drive bar or LGBTQ center, or you know, it used to be a lot of like Craigslist or you know those types of areas, being aware of your friends. And and how those things can come back to you. So having those conversations around, I do with clients, you know, quite a bit of saying like, what platforms do you use, like be aware that you’re you’re currently around people who are seeing you. So if you don’t want to be out of work, or you want to come out on your own terms that could hurt you. If someone works that institution or works at that company, and they’re on Grindr, or one of the apps, right, so it’s being aware that those things can come to you and being aware like, on your Instagram, I believe me, if I had a six pack, I would show it off as well. But what does that communicate to an employer if most of your shots tend to be of yourself? Barely close in some instances, and a lot of employers I’ve spoke with because, you know, I’ve worked with 2000 plus employers now from across industries. And the thing that they say consistently, especially around millennials, and Gen Z, below millennials is that what they worry about with us the most is that we are self serving and self obsessive. And so I’ve had employers tell me that if someone on their Instagram has too many selfies, that’s a red flag for them, because they really, they’re self centered, and they worry about their team. workability so it’s being aware of like, what does that communicate to you?
Unknown Speaker 18:17 Interesting, interesting. Okay. So it needs to be more group photos.
Unknown Speaker 18:24 From a dog in there, if you got a pop, like, you know, take a picture of some flowers, I don’t know, but it’s really thinking through like that brand. And I’m always very cautious. Actually, I don’t want to I’m cautious. I’m cognizant that you know, I everything I post is going to be seen by someone and you know, even sometimes adding in that little blurb if you’re currently working, like views are my own right because there are a lot of employers are cracking down on you’re not allowed a certain amount of social media. I know of employers in higher ranking government offices where they will actually sit down with you and want to go through all of your private messages on Facebook and Instagram. So yeah, it’s a lot so you just got to be aware that’s the whole that’s really is just like awareness building you know?
Unknown Speaker 19:08 Right right yeah especially in the government entities if you’re going for any level of security clearance you you depends on what you post yeah it can be done you can be over so so so so word of caution for everyone lock your stuff down and keep it clean if you need to go back and do your best yes it will still be out there on servers but not publicly visible. I for one my Facebook is is is locked down only people who are connected with me see what I post but what I post is very simple. Yes, I do go hiking and I occasionally post a hiking picture. But, but I don’t post a lot. Nothing like I do on LinkedIn. You know like once or twice A week on Facebook. And that’s it. So, anyhow, folks heed the warning from a career coaching professional. Be aware, read the articles on out bureau about privacy, and just, you know, take that into mind. So one of the other things that when we had our first conversation a minute ago or so, is, you know, the the concept of, you know, should you be out on your resume, since you’re focusing a lot of your attention, although not exclusively on the LGBT community? Could you talk a little bit about, you know, being out having indicators on your resume that you’re part of the LGBT community and what you have seen in and around that?
Unknown Speaker 20:45 Sure. So the first question I always ask is, where are you at and where do you want to? How open Do you want to be at your place of work? My boyfriend is a perfect example. He is an occupational therapist at a retirement community org working with a lot more elderly So, and he’s not really been involved in the queer community. But in his instance, like he feels more comfortable, like that’s his work life. And then this is his home life. A couple people were no but not he’s not something he’s out about. Whereas me, on the other hand, I am, like, everyone knows that I’m involved in queer things on campus. I’m involved in queer things in the community. So it’s really deciding for yourself, how out do you want to be? And then we work from there. So I let’s take example. And this is when we talked about was it let’s say you’re working at an LGBT Center or you volunteered in the LGBT Center, right? You’re learning a lot of awesome skills there. You can work learn things about communication, working with people during crises, doing programming, building networks, all of those awesome things that you can bring to a company. Now if you’re thinking about, you know, I want to be out on my resume. Those are great little signifiers to just demonstrate that you’re queer or an ally. So you can definitely then focus on those skills. But if you’re being thinking, well, I don’t know, if I want to come right out like that, you could say that you’re part of a community service organization. And then you focus on those skill sets, because those skill sets are the majority and the chunk that matters. But where it really changes up is you got to think past the resume too. You have to think past resume and think I’m going to have to go into an interview. Do I want to bring my significant other to the holiday party? Do I want to have a picture of them on my best? Those are all things you have to think through. And it’s hard to think through that on your own, especially if you’re going into particular industries or sections, or you’re at different hiring levels. These are all things you want to take into account. I mean, my personal perspective is the biggest thing that matters are the skill sets that you’re learning there. And that’s what we want to always communicate right. So I’ve definitely seen a wide array and this goes for everything likes, people who have things like around religion on their resume, party affiliations, anything like that, and there are some employers that I always say get a little iffy if something SJW like social justice warrior comes up in there. They get nervous because they’re like, oh, are they going to cause us think about something? Right? And then the thing, is that a place that I want to be, you know, right, right, it’s okay for you to interview the employer and decide if that’s a good place for you to be. And professionally and personally.
Unknown Speaker 23:29 Right. Well, I think that that’s a good point there. And it’s, uh, you know, especially in today’s time, you know, you have to make those personal decisions. And I have, you know, been in a LinkedIn group that I’ve had people say, you know, the well because also their career paths and there, they have none of their skill set has come from working with LGBT organizations and therefore, they you know, was was not pertinent to their Rear. And you know, so people have been like, well, it adds no value. So why would I put that? Well, of course, but there’s also people who have, you know, there’s very some very wonderful large LGBT focused organizations that, you know, have 50 100 600 employees, and you could be working in their IT department for several years, and maybe you’ve done some amazing things within that organization and you work there for three or four years and now transitioning to a different job and, you know, putting that skill set is very pertinent and, you know, having the, the having it on your resume, it’s, it’s, you know, everyone has their own personal journey and their own personal comfort level. You know, some people are again, like, well, it has no pertinence. I’m, you know, this is my career, and I just Treat it as a non issue and it’s nobody’s business what I do at home, and then other people are like, you know, no, I want to make sure that that they’re going to accept me and my full rainbow self and if they don’t screw them because I don’t want to go to work for someone who’s not going to accept me at all. I’m like fabulousness. Right, exactly, you know, everyone is on their own spectrum. And and so there’s no right or wrong answer to that question. It’s for you to answer for your individual self with you and your individual career path. And, you know, maybe for your career, you need to work for period at a homophobic organization, just because you want that skill set that they are going to offer for a year or two, but you know, it’s going to be like, Alright, I’m going to walk in there. I’m going to keep my head down. I’m going to get that on my resume, then I’m going to be like, you, bye bye. Next. I mean, I’ve had people talk about that too, like they knew that they were walking into an extremely homophobic environment, but they knew they were going to injure that just to because it was the only place that they could get the particular stuff on the resume that they needed for the next jump. And I think that’s also very important when you’re looking at your career. Because I get hit with questions all the time. And I’m always looking, let’s like, Look, I’m not I’m not the professional, you know, career coach. I’m not a professional diversity and inclusion consultant, but here are the people who are FYI. So do you. But as I, as I tell people in the past, it’s like, Yeah, sometimes, you know, when you’re looking at your career, you need to think about where you’re going to be where you want to be five years from now. And look for a job and a company that’s going to give you the skills that you’re going to need for your next Next move, you know, honestly be looking at because that’s why you have to interview essentially, and assess that organization. Does it have the job, the reputation that’s that you want? And does it have the the job opportunity that’s going to take you to that next level, either within that company or another company? Because let’s face it, companies are not loyal to you. They’re only loyal to they’re only loyal to their profits. Yeah, so most work most companies are you know, like, even here in Florida, it’s worth work at will estate or at will estate, meaning that they can let you go for no calls whatsoever at any time with no recourse. So many states are like that. And as soon as and, you know, unfortunately, with the COVID, you know, we’ve seen so many people have been laid off. I mean, with cause but you know, just realize that
Unknown Speaker 28:00 Companies are not going to look out for you.
Unknown Speaker 28:04 Period, you have to look out for you. So you are the numero uno, because as soon as their profits start dipping, they’re going to say goodbye. They’re going to say, so sorry, we’re laying you off. So you need to take that into your mind. And you need to realize that it’s no longer like my dad worked for two employers his entire life, you know, it’s no longer that way. And so you have to think of strategically What does this employer add value to me? Do they have all the benefits that I want do or do they have domestic partner benefits? Do they have all the LGBT benefits and inclusivity that I can actually go to work, be proud to work there. And for those people that I know throughout my career history, is this the type of employer that I would recommend to others. And if not, again, maybe it’s a strategic move. on your part, but you know you as an LGBTQ person need to seriously think is this the kind of employer that I want to work for because and just don’t take and hopefully all of you out there will start rating your encourage and recent past employers anonymously on out bureau calm, because, uh, frankly we’ll see I’m not trying to beat folks up. I’m not I just facts, just facts sweetie. But you know when you look at the list of employers who rank 100% on the HRC Human Rights Campaign on corporate Equality Index, don’t think at all that that hundred percent score is much more than yes effort. But But mostly a lot of marketing. are many of the organizations very proud and so forth. Yes. However, don’t think that just because a corporation has achieved that Very few limited 1000 level companies who have the privilege to be on that list and paid the money to be on that list $21 million a year
Unknown Speaker 30:13 total. So it’s not cheap.
Unknown Speaker 30:17 So realize, though, that even for example, Goldman Sachs again, not trying to beat folks up, just fat, just truth and facts and news is in the news, okay, they’ve been on the list of HR C’s corporate Equality Index ranked 100% for several years, and even just this past year yet again, was was touted as one of the best places in the financial sector to work for, okay, and they just had to settle a lawsuit where someone was after eight years of working there, got a new boss, and that new boss was a homophobic asshole, and started making comments like are you doing that? Because you’re gay. Why do you have to sound so gay? And making comments like that to the point where he brought it to HR, no action was taken until it got so bad that finally guess what they hired him saying that he was not interested in his work any longer. Well, excuse me, there’s a hostile work environment where I’m constantly being berated and discriminated against and harassed for being who I am as an LGBT person. HR hasn’t taken any actions against it except to so yeah, it might it might someone’s work performance declined a little bit because they don’t feel comfortable in their workspace and they don’t feel safe. Sure, but they used that as a reason to fire that person, which is been retaliation. So there was a lawsuit in and around that. So just I’m just saying, Be aware
Unknown Speaker 31:59 that Yeah,
Unknown Speaker 32:01 like bets. And I think that’s, you know, from the Career Coach perspective, I would say if a client came to me about those issues, I always, you know, definitely talk about what are your legal protections. But the thing that a lot of us, as LGBTQ people have to sometimes take on, that we don’t always want to take on right, is the spaces that we inhabit. by us, just being there is politicized and is, is made different, right? So a lot of times what we’re what we’re charged with is when we encounter those spaces is I always encourage clients to think through like, is this a space where you want to try to make change as a space where you want to back away and again, helping them kind of think through those things. I mean, I’m an educator, I’m from education. So I’ve been a part of a lot of like LGBTQ equality things over the years. So I’m usually in the space of like, I’m going to educate and I’m going to kind of changed from within and try to find ways that I can make that change like going to people and being like, we need to start go to the LGBT RG, we need to talk about this like making making a rustle about the things that like, are not connecting, right? If they’re on the HRC Equality Index, why is this happening to me and going into many organizations, organizations don’t do not that people based on their their perceptions on diversity and inclusion. And you have to like hit those people sometimes head on. And it’s really that decision. It’s not fair that we have to take up the mantle of being an educator or an activist and our role sometimes. But it’s kind of sometimes the name of the game of thinking through and I always like to think through it as you know, as a queer person who I’m okay with speaking up, like at least if I speak up now in an organization. Hopefully that makes at least some sort of change for the future. And that’s really what it’s about is Again, a lot of you know, career coaches, sometimes we use blanket type of advice. It doesn’t work that way, with queer people. We’re all coming from such diverse backgrounds, we’re all facing different intersectionalities of our identity around race, gender, socioeconomic status, that every single instance can be handled in a different way, depending on your personal preference. And so the person that’s there like, you know, I would have definitely have, like, encouraged them, like, what resources are available there, what resources are available, you know, around the surrounding community, and how do you connect those to make do or do what you know, if you’re not if you’re not longer able to do your job, because of those types of threats and those types of feelings that someone is targeting you. I mean, I think it’s very well to like go the go the legal route. It’s something that has to be done because change a lot of times can be messy and it’s important for people Not to go into looking at an employer like all they have these ratings, and there’s a lot of different rating systems. Just because they have those ratings does not mean that everyone in that company has that perception, I think we’re able to troublesome to is if your human resources departments are not stepping in, and that’s where I’ve never been one to be like, hierarchy, right? Like, oh, I report to this manager. And so I tell them that and then they’ll go and tell that person, I am the first one, like, if my direct supervisor does not do anything, or I feel like there’s nothing being done, I’m the first one to jump over everybody, and be like, okay, we’ll just go to the head honcho, because clearly, you know, so it’s really kind of like setting up those steps. And that’s where someone like, you know, talking to local community members reaching out on LinkedIn posting about hero, that’s where you can find what are some strategies of working around a lot of these things.
Unknown Speaker 35:53 Absolutely. And, you know, I’d like to clarify been very,
Unknown Speaker 35:58 very vocal. In my writings on it, you know, get I’m not trying to beat up. It’s just news facts right? And there and there’s other other organizations that I’ve, I’ve used in my examples in the past. But, you know, the thing is, is that the the policies of a company are the intent, and also the CIA, frankly,
Unknown Speaker 36:28 to help mitigate litigation in the future.
Unknown Speaker 36:33 For example, a lot of the companies who have LGBTQ inclusive policies also have what’s called forced arbitration. Which means when you come on board as an employee, you are signing away your right to publicly sue them, which so if you get discriminated against or harassed, you cannot put forth a public lawsuit you are forced into arbitration Which doesn’t see the light of public day, it keeps it out and no, so you can’t talk about it. So that way it keeps their image from being from it being known. So those are that’s why when you when you do post on out Bureau, it’s anonymous. We know who you are, but it’s anonymous publicly, so that you can still share it also, just in case you still feel like there’s a potential issue. I actually created a catch all employer box called out bureau so that because it’s really important for those those issues to be to become known as a collective. And over time, the goal is is that that will be able to as more and more people utilize the services and input the demographics and all those kinds of things as part of their review. That will actually be be able to partner with folks like yourself And the educational side provides to statistical data through it, but but realizing, as you pointed out that, you know, these larger organizations who have these, you know, wonderful and I do applaud everyone who has them, it’s a step in the right direction. But when they have 100, you know, just using the example of 100,000 employees, as you stated, The though all of those employees when someone when an organization enacts you know, LGBT friendly policies, non discrimination policies and so forth, that doesn’t just automatically, you know, overnight, turned all 100,000 employees into your day. Yeah, right, Rainbow waving, unicorn writing, loving, magical land, right. They still have their, they still have their biases, and so forth, those lifelong learning prejudices and biases that it’s a lot to overcome. We’ve seen that on race and we’ve seen In it on sexual harassment, you know, sexual harassment has been illegal here in the United States since 1978. Every year corporations put all kinds of effort into annual training, signing off and so forth. And yet it still happens. Right? So, you know, that’s something too. So it’s not that I’m necessarily I’m not trying to beat up organizations at all, but I’m just trying to, you know, reality check. Because when I don’t want companies to think that just because they are on those corporate Equality Index lists, that we think they’re perfect, because they’re not perfect.
Unknown Speaker 39:40 The work is never done, the work is never done. When you’re dealing with these identities, our I mean, our identities, guys that are politicized and it’s it is what it is, and that’s where we’re having to work within the spectrums of like, heterosexual life daily. So it is truly self worth. Just to kind of like work through.